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Let me tell you about our experience with a WaterFurnace geothermal HVAC system at our house. We bought a $100,000 plus "high end" WaterFurnace geothermal HVAC system for our custom built house.

We did our research about geothermal HVAC systems. We learned that WaterFurnace makes the best geothermal heat pumps and equipment, although their prices are also high. We discovered that homeowners are advised to buy high quality geothermal heat pumps and to hire the most qualified designer and installer. We followed all of that advice.

We hired a top WaterFurnace dealer in our area. The dealer specialized in "high-end geothermal HVAC systems". The owner of the company was a state-licensed professional engineer who also had IGSHPA geothermal HVAC training and certifications. He also had training from WaterFurnace. Our architect and builder had prior experience with the HVAC dealer and its owner, and recommended them to us. Our architect used them to maintain his own home's HVAC system. So we thought we were "golden" and naturally assumed that we would end up with an extremely high quality result. Boy were we ever wrong.

Upon completion of the house, we discovered that our geothermal HVAC system didn't heat or cool the house properly. Our dealer promised he would fix the problems. Since he was a top WaterFurnace dealer and a licensed professional engineer on top of that, we trusted him and assumed everything would be straightened out quickly. We thought it had to be something minor. Pretty soon we were into June, July and August without a properly functioning air conditioning system. Our dealer was now blaming the problem on the house instead of his HVAC system.

At first he said it was because the next door neighbor had cut down a tree in their yard. He said our attic was "too hot" even though it had twice the code-required ventilation, 30 inches of blown insulation and had passed inspection during construction. As a delay tactic, he insisted we cut holes in our brand new roof to add power ventilators (which we did but it didn't help). We were surviving only by using portable air conditioners.

What we didn't know was that our dealer was in the process of selling his company to a group of investors who had no prior HVAC experience and were going to hire him to continue to operate the business for them, as their employee. Meanwhile, the design problems with our geothermal HVAC system were being concealed from us and also from the buyers who paid a lot of money to buy the business. Our dealer had been deliberately delaying and stonewalling until he could get the sale completed and hand the problem over to the new owners.

As would be expected, we appealed to WaterFurnace for help. We assumed that WaterFurnace would step in, make a phone call and help us. We assumed that WaterFurnace couldn't afford to let one of its top dealers have a failed geothermal HVAC system in a major market, with a top architect and builder, and not do something about it. Well, we were certainly wrong about that too.

We were told that WaterFurnace's policy was not to involve itself in disputes between their dealers and homeowners. The only way WaterFurnace would visit the house would be if the dealer requested it.

WaterFurnace's only interest was whether their heat pumps performed according to their specs. We couldn't believe that WaterFurnace would behave that way. Our architect and builder design and build large luxury houses that are all perfect candidates for WaterFurnace geothermal HVAC systems. But after our experience, however, I doubt they would recommend that their clients buy geothermal HVAC systems and I assume the word has spread among their professional peers. In my own case, when people have asked me for information, they immediately lose all interest after they hear our sad story.

Pretty soon it was time for heating season. We had to use space heaters. We finally had no choice but to fire the WaterFurnace dealer in December, after giving him more than 9 months to fix our problems.

We turned to another large WaterFurnace dealer for help. The owner of that WaterFurnace dealership said he would be willing to help us out but first we had to hire an independent HVAC engineer to analyze the problems and propose corrective action. We agreed to do that. The engineer was shocked. He told us the problem was a bad design and bad engineering. He wrote a thick report detailing numerous design and engineering and installation problems that prevented the system from heating and cooling the house.

Obviously we couldn't live in the house or sell it without a properly functioning HVAC system. So we had no choice but to use the sales proceeds from our former house to pay for ANOTHER new geothermal HVAC system for the new house. That meant we were unable to pay off the money we had borrowed to build the new house. So now we have a mortgage on the new house we hadn't planned on. For most homeowners, this would spell financial disaster and possibly the loss of a home.

The second WaterFurnace dealer's owner was wonderful. He arranged to have WaterFurnace reps to come to our house twice before work started, to see the original system. They witnessed all the design and engineering and installation mistakes made by the first dealer. I heard what they said with my own ears. They made written reports. It cost us a whole lot of money, but the second WaterFurnace dealer made our HVAC system operate properly although some compromises were necessary.

The first WaterFurnace dealer refused to pay us "one dime" towards the cost of repairs and design changes. We probably would have settled for $75,000 or maybe $50,000 or less. So we hired a lawyer to recover our damages. This was when we discovered that the company had been sold to new owners. Of course, prior to the sale, the problems with our WaterFurnace geothermal HVAC system were concealed from the buyers. When they learned of our complaint, the new owners required the former owner to defend them and pay all expenses. The former owner refused to arbitrate the dispute, as was required by the contract. Arbitration would have been quick, inexpensive and private. So that left us with no choice but to file a lawsuit, which greatly delayed things and increased our attorney fees and costs.

We naturally thought WaterFurnace would step in to help us recover our damages. We felt confident that having WaterFurnace on our side would force a quick, out-of-court settlement. Well, we were wrong once again. WaterFurnace was not willing to help us, even though we were in the right and having seen the system they knew it. When we took WaterFurnace's depositions, we were told their reports had not been put into writing. Their representatives were unable to remember key details.

Without WaterFurnace's help, we ended up having a two week jury trial. We won a rather large judgment against the company (now owned by new owners) for breach of contract, breach of warranty and concealment. We also won a judgment against the former owner for professional negligence, misrepresentation and concealment. Both the company and the former owner are now in Bankruptcy Court, in separate cases. Even now, WaterFurnace still could probably come into the Bankruptcy Court to help us.

Here's the bottom line: our $100,000 plus WaterFurnace geothermal HVAC system has now ended up costing us $750,000 -- that's right, 3/4 of a million dollars, including the original cost, the repair costs and our attorney fees and expert fees. This case easily could have been settled inexpensively early on with WaterFurnace's help, but instead it has cost $1 million just for attorney fees alone for both sides. None of this would have happened had we chosen to buy a conventional HVAC system. Most homeowners would be financially destroyed by having the outcome that we have had.

Horror stories similar to ours can be found all over the Internet. The geothermal HVAC industry may be government subsidized, but sadly it isn't regulated. Congress gives the geothermal HVAC industry a 30% federal tax credit without any concern about whether these systems are correctly designed or actually work properly. This 30% federal tax credit benefits manufacturers and dealers, allowing them to charge more money for these systems. So the tax credit really doesn't go to the homeowner. The truth is that government at all levels fails to protect homeowners. The law and the courts also fail to protect homeowners. Yes, geothermal HVAC systems theoretically are supposed to save homeowners money in operating costs. Some question if that's even true. But that's only true if they are designed properly and actually work properly. Many homeowners report HIGHER operating costs with geothermal HVAC. Homeowners need to be aware that they are on their own when problems occur. Nobody is going to help them if they have problems like we did and like many others apparently do. Nobody is going to pay for the damages and repair costs.

My advice? Buyer Beware!!! I tell people to buy a high efficiency, reliable, conventional HVAC system and stay away from geothermal HVAC systems. There's just too much risk for the average homeowner. There's no way to be sure a geothermal HVAC system is designed or installed properly, or that it delivers the promised cost savings. And as for WaterFurnace? They might make great geothermal heat pumps and other equipment, but they do not support the end-user homeowner, at least not based upon our experience with this company.

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Anonymous
#1568528

My Water Furnace worked ok for 3 maybe 4 years. Started hearing a fairly loud buzzing from our basement.

Called the company that installed and they came out to fix the problem. Fixed for a short time and the buzzing started again. Heating bills are ridiculous (2600 sq. ft.

in Delaware, Ohio) last year was 700.00 +. House is 13 + years old. I'm told the pump is going out (has been for the last 8-9 years). I need to get a new furnace due to No Parts Available!!

I read that these units should last 20 - 25 years. Not This one.

Anonymous
#1568029

I am an owner of a company that specializes in geothermal installations. I have hundreds of happy customers.

With this story it is a classic case of a bad installation. I see too many regular hvac companies install geothermal but not know how to properly install them. If you have had a bad experience with geothermal it is because your contractor is not experienced in geothermal. You can get a bad gas forced air installation too.

It all boils down to your choice in choosing a qualified contractor. Choose wisely!

Anonymous
#1486740

I have had my system since 2012. Things worked well until December of 2017 and since then I have had three separate service calls.

The most recent was for a thermostat which has now been replaced for the third time. The quality of the system seems to be quite poor in my experience. With all of the on going repair costs I have had lately the efficiency of the unit becomes irrelevant.

What little I save in energy costs I am more than spending on repairs. I do not recommend Waterfurnace.

Anonymous
#1477947

it is not a manufactures problem if a system is installed wrong, i don't care how many letters are behind the persons name.

Anonymous
#1471761

I will agree..... I wish I had put in a conventional system.

I didn't have the same problems as the above poster but now the compressor has gone out on my synergy 3 for the second time. They don't know why it has gone out, but the bill to replace the compressor was going to be over 4k and there could be more things wrong with the thing, so it was recommended to replace the whole furnace. I don't use the in floor heat in my basement so I decided to buy a new Geocool with a life time warranty on the compressor, same tonnage for half the price of the Synergy 3. My HVAC company will not install the Geocool because they did not sell it to me.

So haven't had it installed yet have a guy coming today to give and estimate.

In the past 10 years the mother board went out, the fan went out and the compressor went out. Lots of problems, just a good thing I had a wood stove and electric back up to my water heater.

Anonymous
#1452164

Your blaming the product for your experience with the dealer. I have a Waterfurnace system in my house, and I absolutely love it.

I heat and cool 9000 sqft for fractions of what a conventional system would have cost and have done so for 10+ years. I did my own engineering. My house is spray foam insulated. Many mistakes I see in the above story.

Waterfunace makes the best Geo HVAC system there is. It is ultra energy efficient and provides much better indoor air quality compared to the top brands of conventional systems.

Anonymous
#1442026

Climate Master is just as bad. $3500 in repairs in less than 4 years.

Now compressor is toast. Warrantee is a joke.

Anonymous
#1353563

It looks like from the posts that this guy might be able to afford his mistake but the real mistake was in arithmetic. It seems that $4,000 will buy a conventional system.

He spent $100,000. On an average bill of $100 @ month for the waterfurnance system and $400 @ month for the conventional system he could have gone for 27 years to reach the breakeven point.

This without factoring in the lost capital of $96,000 that could have gone into a variety of investments. That is a mistake that he didn't take into account and that was all of his fault.

Anonymous
#1332840

You could've bought a furnace for less than five grand. You got what you deserved trying to put that kind of money into keeping your house warm you *** ***.

A million dollars? You must be retarded.

Anonymous
#1317166

I am sorry this man had problems, but I have a geo thermal system and am completely satisfied. 4000 sq' home and heat and cooling monthly is usually about $100. Fantastic!

Anonymous
Columbus, Ohio, United States #1260131

As a small HVAC/R business owner, I would never recommend a geothermal system to anybody. I would rather install a 95% effecient gas furnace with a 13 seer AC for about $4k. You save a ton of money, and your utility bills are inexpensive.

Anonymous
Monon, Indiana, United States #1254392

thank you I as thiking of buying this ill hold off for no mike Jonas monon in

Anonymous
Bronx, New York, United States #1230641

Im sorry this happened to you. Gov should not be subsidizing energy that is not yet ready to stand on its own, this is what happens.

Sad. I am not going to get Geothermal now.

Anonymous
to Anonymous #1234576

Sorry to read about your nightmare story. The key to a good system is the engineering, design and install.

You should definitely check the references and speak with other customers before choosing the installer and equipment. I have used geo thermal on a couple of large commercial projects and have been very pleased. The first project we held back significant dollars to insure the system operated as designed and delivered the comfort and savings that were promised.

Soon we will undertake another large commercial project.

I'm sorry that you had a very bad experience. I hope others that read your story will not dismiss geo thermal as a result.

Hopefully your story can help others better prepare for a successful geo thermal installation.

In addition to the comfort the systems have provided in our projects, they have also returned more than 11% on the capital investment in energy savings.

Geo Thermal done right is a wonderful system that most certainly can stand on its own (without tax credits and subsidies) and provide decades of efficient heating and cooling.

Anonymous
Buffalo, New York, United States #1230536

Thank you for your report on Water Furnace. I wil stay with a conventional HVAC.

Anonymous
Pretoria, Gauteng, South Africa #1227813

My water furnance system does not work either. My split system heat pump was cheaper than Geothermal.

Same situation with water furnance corporate, and not stepping in. We are sueing water furnance and our dealer (sue them for lack of training, and it will go deep). I don't care if I don't get a dime, but I will make them pay dearly in lawyer fees.

We called Climate Master and they fixed (dug up our ground, installed correct size units). Issues have gone away.

Anonymous
Carmel, Indiana, United States #1196016

Buying an appliance/hardware that's too complicated and or too difficult to install properly is crazy. If it can go wrong, it will go wrong, especially on a holiday weekend or during the coldest/hottest day of the year. Go ahead rationalize why you want to throw the dice, but as for me and my family we are going to buy something less complicated, easier to maintain and cheaper too.

Anonymous
Albuquerque, New Mexico, United States #1181140

I have a system 7 which is marvelous. It provides heating and cooling reliably and have had only one small problem.

A thermistor failed and the dealer replaced it at no cost and everything works fine. I would like to have a bit more hysterisis in the thermostat to keep it from cycling so much.

Cooling on 100 degree days uses around 7kwh.

Anonymous
Baltimore, Maryland, United States #1111274

sue those ***

Anonymous
#1104418

I too, am a Waterfurnace owner (since Dec. 2010) and while my experience has been ok for the most part, I can attest their customer service and even dealer network is pretty shabby considering what these units cost.

I don't feel the system is any better than my previous old system that was destroyed when my previous repair man/co. reconnected my system in the rain after I'd had them move it for some foundation repair work. (Contractor nightmares are my life.) Things have been fine with my WF system until I recently attempted to adjust my thermostat and a static shock made it get a little wonky with the readout. It still works, but it's not like it should be and is not maintaining the set temp reliably.

I have spent OVER a week trying to get my distributor to call/e-mail me back or rather someone to call me back that knows about the waterfurnace products they sell and can give me the model # (there were no model/serial or any other identifiable numbers of any kind on my invoice or the thermostat) and a quote on a new thermostat. A quote I got from another distributor came in at around $220 when it's all said and done (s&H and tax). That is if I trust he is correct in what unit he says I have given there is no model number on it anywhere, inside or out. That ridiculous price is for the bottom of the line thermostat!!

Not programmable, Wi-fi, zone, nothing. First off, I'm not happy that a little static shock screwed the *** thing up and that it will cost over $200 to replace it or I risk voiding my warranty, which now after reading all this, am not even sure exists. In hindsight, I wish I'd gone with a standard heating system with a heat pump like I previously had that anybody can work on and isn't so complicated or expensive to repair or nearly impossible find a quality person with prompt, fair response time and expense. I could also go pick up a new thermostat locally and get on with my life.

Bottom line, I don't recommend this system or this company given their lack of customer service after they have your money or based on the fact that I've talked to people in this business that don't think they are all that they are cracked up to be. Gotta love that 20/20 hindsight!

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